Mysterious William Thomas PRICE
Well, I ordered the birth certificate for the William Thomas PRICE who was baptised at St Mary's, Lambeth, Surrey on 14th July 1861.
To recap, the baptism says that the parents were William and Eliza PRICE living in Christchurch, Surrey and that William was a drover.
The birth certificate says that William Thomas as born on 8th June 1861 at 2 Bear Lane, Christchurch, Surrey and that the father was William PRICE, a cattle drover, and that the mother was Eliza PRICE formerly PARKER. The informant was Eliza PRICE, who mde her mark, and her address was 2 Bear Lane, Christchurch, Surrey. The birth was registered on 10th July 1861, so Eliza was alive at that point!
This is so odd!
Is this father, William PRICE, the same man who married Mary VALANTINE on 17th July 1861? How could that possibly be? Could William PRICE, the drover, be baptising a child with someone called Eliza on 14th July 1861 and then get married to Mary VALANTINE three days later on the 17th?
However, there is a William PRICE, aged 10, living with William and Mary PRICE on the 1871 census and this birth certificate seems to be the only one that fits the 10 year old William.
I decided to investigate the birth certificate as though I knew nothing about him!
Firstly, his birth is pretty close to the 1861 census. So, I searched on the 1861 census to see who was living at 2 Bear Lane, Christchurch, Surrey. However, there was no one there named PRICE or PARKER or William or Eliza!
I had previously tried finding William PRICE on the 1861 census in the Surrey area, but obviously (and possibly mistakenly), focusing in on only single men; he'd said he was a batchelor when he married Mary VALANTINE after all! I'd found nothing!
This time, I searched again, looking for a William PRICE with a wife called Eliza. This time I found a married William PRICE with his wife Eliza living at 2 Stiles Buildings, Christchurch, Southwark. The Reference is Class: RG 9; Piece: 313; Folio: 167; Page: 66. There were several families living at this address but their details are as follows:
William PRICE Head Mar 31 Cattle Drover Christchurch, Surrey
Eliza PRICE Wife Mar 28 St Pancras, Middlesex
I then tried to find a marriage for William PRICE and Eliza PARKER. As she was 28 in 1861, I allowed for the possibility that she could have married as early as aged 16, and searched at freebmd.org.uk between 1849 and 1861 for a marriage between William PRICE and Eliza PARKER, across all districts and found nothing.
I then tried using the phonetic search on the surnames and found nothing! I tried searching just for marriages for Eliza PARKERs between those dates but found so many, I decided that wasn't going to get me anywhere! As they both seem to be from the London, Surrey area, I decided to search the London Marriage parish records at Ancestry.
I firstly tried searching just for marriages for Eliza PARKER and nothing came up that could be right.
I then realised that searching for William PRICE marriages made much more sense as I could check on the occupation for William! However, although I looked at every single William PRICE marriage that came up, none were Drovers and none had a wife whose name was anything like Eliza PARKER. As the couple had had William Thomas baptised in a Church of England Church, I doubted that I'd find their marriage in a non-conformist register. However, I also searched at findmypast using the same criteria and found nothing.
So ...... were William and Eliza just living together on the 1861 census and had Eliza just assumed the PRICE surname and the married status to appear respectable? I tried to find a William and Eliza PRICE on the 1871 census and found nothing.
I then thought I should prove that the William Thomas born on 8th June 1861 didn't die before the 1871 census. I searched each year between 1861 and 1871 and couldn't find a William Thomas PRICE death in the St Saviour Surrey district. Of course, he could have died elsewhere but the name is so common that I have to limit the search, although recognising the limitation.
I then wondered whether Eliza PRICE (or PARKER) had died and searched the gro website for deaths between 1861 and 1871 in the St Saviour Surrey district with both surnames of PRICE and PARKER, choosing the gro site because it gives the age given at death. I found the following:
Eliza Sarah PRICE Age 27 Died St Saviour 1862 M Qtr Ref 01D Page 17
I can't find a burial record for this Eliza Sarah PRICE but even if I had, it may not be helpful; it all depends on whether it says what her marital status was and who was her husband if she was married. However, I thought I'd have a look to see if there was an Eliza Sarah PRICE (or at least another Eliza PRICE) on the 1861 census in St Saviour. There is an Eliza S PRICE, aged 26, married to Jonah Price (a whitesmith), living in St Saviour, Southwark and she's the only one in Southwark (apart from the Eliza and William PRICE I've been interested in).
I don't really want to waste money buying the death certificate for this Eliza Sarah PRICE but I don't think she's the Eliza living with William at 2 Stiles Buildings on the 1861 census.
So, is this William PRICE with Eliza the same man as married Mary VALANTINE? If he is, what happened to Eliza PRICE(PARKER)?
A wild flight of fancy ...... what is she suffered from severe postnatal depression and was confined to a lunatic asylum? This would leave William with a big problem; who could look after his baby son, William Thomas PRICE? Mary VALANTINE who William PRICE married in the July was already pregnant with a baby that would be born on the 3rd Oct 1861. When this baby was baptised, William said he was the father. So, did Eliza find out about this and it triggered her depression? The baby due to be born to Mary VALANTINE may or may not have been William's but clearly Mary VALANTINE may have been an ideal choice as a mother for the William born in the July.
All complete supposition!
The only other thing I can try to find is whether there are any Poor Law records for Eliza PRICE/PARKER for the 1861 period. There is one entry for an Eliza PRICE, born 1825, who was admitted to the St Saviour Workhouse on 23rd Sep 1862 as she was destitute. However, there is very little information to prove it's the same person.
However, the main point is that, based on what I have found out, I believe that the 10 year old William living with William and Mary PRICE on the 1871 census is not a child of both of them but a child of a previous relationship of William.
Unless someone or something can prove otherwise!
To recap, the baptism says that the parents were William and Eliza PRICE living in Christchurch, Surrey and that William was a drover.
The birth certificate says that William Thomas as born on 8th June 1861 at 2 Bear Lane, Christchurch, Surrey and that the father was William PRICE, a cattle drover, and that the mother was Eliza PRICE formerly PARKER. The informant was Eliza PRICE, who mde her mark, and her address was 2 Bear Lane, Christchurch, Surrey. The birth was registered on 10th July 1861, so Eliza was alive at that point!
This is so odd!
Is this father, William PRICE, the same man who married Mary VALANTINE on 17th July 1861? How could that possibly be? Could William PRICE, the drover, be baptising a child with someone called Eliza on 14th July 1861 and then get married to Mary VALANTINE three days later on the 17th?
However, there is a William PRICE, aged 10, living with William and Mary PRICE on the 1871 census and this birth certificate seems to be the only one that fits the 10 year old William.
I decided to investigate the birth certificate as though I knew nothing about him!
Firstly, his birth is pretty close to the 1861 census. So, I searched on the 1861 census to see who was living at 2 Bear Lane, Christchurch, Surrey. However, there was no one there named PRICE or PARKER or William or Eliza!
I had previously tried finding William PRICE on the 1861 census in the Surrey area, but obviously (and possibly mistakenly), focusing in on only single men; he'd said he was a batchelor when he married Mary VALANTINE after all! I'd found nothing!
This time, I searched again, looking for a William PRICE with a wife called Eliza. This time I found a married William PRICE with his wife Eliza living at 2 Stiles Buildings, Christchurch, Southwark. The Reference is Class: RG 9; Piece: 313; Folio: 167; Page: 66. There were several families living at this address but their details are as follows:
William PRICE Head Mar 31 Cattle Drover Christchurch, Surrey
Eliza PRICE Wife Mar 28 St Pancras, Middlesex
I then tried to find a marriage for William PRICE and Eliza PARKER. As she was 28 in 1861, I allowed for the possibility that she could have married as early as aged 16, and searched at freebmd.org.uk between 1849 and 1861 for a marriage between William PRICE and Eliza PARKER, across all districts and found nothing.
I then tried using the phonetic search on the surnames and found nothing! I tried searching just for marriages for Eliza PARKERs between those dates but found so many, I decided that wasn't going to get me anywhere! As they both seem to be from the London, Surrey area, I decided to search the London Marriage parish records at Ancestry.
I firstly tried searching just for marriages for Eliza PARKER and nothing came up that could be right.
I then realised that searching for William PRICE marriages made much more sense as I could check on the occupation for William! However, although I looked at every single William PRICE marriage that came up, none were Drovers and none had a wife whose name was anything like Eliza PARKER. As the couple had had William Thomas baptised in a Church of England Church, I doubted that I'd find their marriage in a non-conformist register. However, I also searched at findmypast using the same criteria and found nothing.
So ...... were William and Eliza just living together on the 1861 census and had Eliza just assumed the PRICE surname and the married status to appear respectable? I tried to find a William and Eliza PRICE on the 1871 census and found nothing.
I then thought I should prove that the William Thomas born on 8th June 1861 didn't die before the 1871 census. I searched each year between 1861 and 1871 and couldn't find a William Thomas PRICE death in the St Saviour Surrey district. Of course, he could have died elsewhere but the name is so common that I have to limit the search, although recognising the limitation.
I then wondered whether Eliza PRICE (or PARKER) had died and searched the gro website for deaths between 1861 and 1871 in the St Saviour Surrey district with both surnames of PRICE and PARKER, choosing the gro site because it gives the age given at death. I found the following:
Eliza Sarah PRICE Age 27 Died St Saviour 1862 M Qtr Ref 01D Page 17
I can't find a burial record for this Eliza Sarah PRICE but even if I had, it may not be helpful; it all depends on whether it says what her marital status was and who was her husband if she was married. However, I thought I'd have a look to see if there was an Eliza Sarah PRICE (or at least another Eliza PRICE) on the 1861 census in St Saviour. There is an Eliza S PRICE, aged 26, married to Jonah Price (a whitesmith), living in St Saviour, Southwark and she's the only one in Southwark (apart from the Eliza and William PRICE I've been interested in).
I don't really want to waste money buying the death certificate for this Eliza Sarah PRICE but I don't think she's the Eliza living with William at 2 Stiles Buildings on the 1861 census.
So, is this William PRICE with Eliza the same man as married Mary VALANTINE? If he is, what happened to Eliza PRICE(PARKER)?
A wild flight of fancy ...... what is she suffered from severe postnatal depression and was confined to a lunatic asylum? This would leave William with a big problem; who could look after his baby son, William Thomas PRICE? Mary VALANTINE who William PRICE married in the July was already pregnant with a baby that would be born on the 3rd Oct 1861. When this baby was baptised, William said he was the father. So, did Eliza find out about this and it triggered her depression? The baby due to be born to Mary VALANTINE may or may not have been William's but clearly Mary VALANTINE may have been an ideal choice as a mother for the William born in the July.
All complete supposition!
The only other thing I can try to find is whether there are any Poor Law records for Eliza PRICE/PARKER for the 1861 period. There is one entry for an Eliza PRICE, born 1825, who was admitted to the St Saviour Workhouse on 23rd Sep 1862 as she was destitute. However, there is very little information to prove it's the same person.
However, the main point is that, based on what I have found out, I believe that the 10 year old William living with William and Mary PRICE on the 1871 census is not a child of both of them but a child of a previous relationship of William.
Unless someone or something can prove otherwise!
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